Area Repeater Coordination Council

Minutes of October 3, 2009 Meeting

Submitted by Karen Woolard, N3QQT



Meeting was called to order at 1:30pm.

President Report   KW3P, Kevin Woolard started with a welcome to all who attended.  He started the agenda with the VP of Administration, N3QQT, Karen Woolard had nothing to report at this time.

Vice President of Coordination Report   WB1GOT, Bill Powell, motioned to the board to create a new position Assistant Vice President of Coordination to be set in place to help him with co-ordinations.  The motion was seconded by N3QQT, Karen Woolard.  Put to the vote and motion carried.  Bill Powell spoke with a prospective candidate, Charles Schmell, KS3Z.  Kevin, KW3P, stated Charles Schmell was unable to attend the meeting, continued to read his resume. Bill Powell put the motion on the table to elect Charles Schmell, KS3Z, in as Assistant Vice President of Communications.  The motion was seconded by Michael Torluccio, N3XXH.  The vote was put to the board and carried.  Bill Powell requested his Narrow Band presentation be put off to the end of the meeting.  Bill also stated there is a need to send out a survey to verify coordinated repeaters information, address changes, and stated there are a number of repeaters that still do not have PL tones again to be discussed at the end of the meeting.

WN3A, Jeff De Polo, our Database Manager was unable to attend.  Jeff has been the database manager for 15 plus years.  Bill, WB1GOT, states he is the final step in coordinating frequencies.  He runs the RF profile, tests feasibility or makes adjustments when necessary, maintains the database, and issues the coordination certificate.  Bill continued to say we could not do the coordination’s without Jeff. Dave Laustsen continued to state that Jeff is a tremendous asset to ARCC.  Bill Powell, WB1GOT, then put forward the motion to re-appoint Jeff De Polo, W3NA, as Database Manager.  Don Curtis, W3LR, seconded the motion.  The vote was unanimous.

The Secretary Report was read by Karen, N3QQT.  KA2DZF, Lawrence Gasperone, was unable to attend.  The minutes of the meeting submitted by KA2DZF, approved as read.

The Treasurer Report was read by Karen, N3QQT, submitted by Robert Freer, W3YLT, and approved as read.  W3YLT, Robert Freer, was unable to attend.

Pete Rossi, WA3NNA, reports he has been working on updating the system as Internet WWW Page Manager.  A report from the VP of Coordination should be posted shortly.  Bill asked Pete if there is anyway to tell how many people went on the website and read the new band plan.  Pete will update the board.  Bill Powell, WB1GOT, put the motion for Pete Rossi, WA3NNA to be reappointed as Internet WWW Page Manager, Don Curtis second the motion, all approved.

Member At-Large, Gene Pressler, W3ZXV was unable to attend the meeting.  In his place, Kevin Woolard, KW3P made the presentation.  In his presentation, Kevin praised Dave Laustsen, W3LAW for the 15 years he has served ARCC.  He was the second President of ARCC, as Kevin said the man with the “legal attitude”.  Dave pulled ARCC together with his newsletters, informing people when the ARCC meetings would be held, encouraging all to attend.  He has always encouraged amateur radio operators to Volunteer to provide communications for MS walks, Boy Scout functions, Delaware College communications, and most importantly for Bucks County Amateur Radio Emergency Services and Radio Amateur Communication Emergency Services.  He supported placing an amateur radio station to be placed in local hospitals in case of communications failure.  To this day Dave still promotes the use of amateur radio as “Free Volunteers” available for communications emergencies as he runs for office as Borough Councilman in Doylestown.  We all thanked him for his continued services.  After the presentation was made, Kevin, KW3P asked if Dave Laustsen would agree to stay on as “Advisor” to ARCC.  He agreed.  The motion was put on the floor to set up the “Advisor” position by Kevin, KW3P, and seconded by Bill Powell.  The motion carried.  Bill Powell, WB1GOT put the motion for Dave Laustsen, W3LAW to be appointed as “Advisor”, seconded by John Sichert, KA3LAO. The motion carried.  Again, Dave continues to serve and promote amateur communications.

Kevin Woolard, KW3P, asked the board to make a motion to re-appoint all ARCC Regional Representatives to the board.  Mike Torluccio, N3XXH, made the motion to re-appoint all ARCC representatives to the board.  N3QQT seconded the motion and the motion was carried.

  • Coordinators:
    • KA3LAO, John Sichert had no reports of problems.
    • W2ARP, A.  Robert Pantazes was unable to attend.

  • Regional Representatives:  Any Report or Problems:
    • EPA-SE:  K3ITH, Richard Stewart: there was an email that some one was given 3 new repeaters in Bucks County.
    • EPA-SW:  Vacant.
    • EPA-NE:  W3LR, Don Curtis reports some digital repeaters are up but not coordinated.
    • EPA-NW:  N3XXH, Mike Torluccio reports he was trying to get information on a 147.190 repeater however he stated at this time nothing was on line.  There are a few repeaters on the ARCC list that are in question.  145.190 listed for Danville was sold to K3KDK.  The audit form will be sent to Bill Powell.  The 145.210 owner, Dave Williams in Honesdale is deceased.  The 147.240 from Elk Mountain is in the hands of another person, that they are unable to correspond with, reported by the 146.835 Alex machine.
    • EPA-Assistant NW:  KB3AWQ, John Springman, unable to attend.
    • SNJ:  KB2ADL, John Goheen, unable to attend

Old Business:

Oversite Committee: We talked about having an oversite committee to resolve conflicts of interest.  After reviewing the bylaws, under Article VII Requests for Review, Mediation, and Arbitration, I would like to propose the request for an “Oversite Committee”, Mediator or Arbitrator be set aside until the actual need arises and at that point fill the position.  After some discussion, Bill Powell puts a motion to the board, “As a matter of record to approve the concept of an Oversite Committee to be appointed in the time of need consisting of 3 ARCC members and 3 independents.”  Seconded by John Sichert. Approved by the board.

Narrowband Communications Proposal and Presentation from the Vice-President of Coordination Bill Powell.

New Business:

Vote to add position of Assistant Vice President of Coordination was approved by the board.  Discussion and vote for Charles Schmell, KS3Z to fill the position of Assistant Vice President of Coordination, which was approved.

The vote to add the position of Advisor to the Board was approved.  Bill Powell The vote to add Dave Laustsen as “Advisor” was also approved.

At this time we are not ready to discuss equipment purchase for the proper monitoring of digital communications or vote on equipment purchase.  This will be tabled for a future meeting.




ARCC Narrow Band Proposal
Submitted by Bill Powell, WB1GOT
11/13/2009

First and Foremost

  • Proposal does NOT force anyone to change anything!  Currently coordinated repeaters occupying proposed narrow-band segments become “grandfathered and frozen”.

  • The objective of this proposal is to “refarm” portions of bands that are currently inefficiently coordinated.  Narrower 12.5 kHz channel spacing supports current technology and is encouraged by the FCC.

    Original “wide band” FM required 25 kHz channel spacing.  Current FM equipment operates quite nicely with channels spaced at 15 and 20 kHz.  We intend to recover as much of the “wasted” bandwidth (~30% or more) EXCEPT where co-channel or adjacent channel interference is or may be an issue.  Interference issues can, and are currently being addressed by care in coordination.

  • This proposal is not just for digital but for ANY narrow band modulation technique: Any mode having 11.8 kHz emission or less.

  • It's NOT just for digital.

  • Initially, co-channel coordination will be done on a like-for-like basis, where possible.
    Only another digital repeater will be coordinated on a channel currently occupied by a digital repeater.  Should issues arise from intermixing differing digital modulation techniques, coordination rules may change to require that only identical modulation techniques be coordinated on a given channel.

Two Meter Proposal

  • Beginning at the low end of the 2 meter FM repeater band (145.11 MHz) and working up, existing 20 kHz spaced channels will be “split” into 12.5 kHz channels, 6 - 20 kHz channels at a time.
    Note: The actual frequencies have yet to be determined.  All examples that have been provided are just that: examples.

  • ONLY the lower 2 meter repeater sub-band (20 kHz spaced) is being considered for narrow-band will be converted to 12.5 kHz channels.
    There is NOTHING gained by messing with 15 kHz spaced channels.

440 MHz Proposal

  • On 70cm, NBFM repeaters will be coordinated in the existing FM repeater sub-bands, with operating frequencies offset by +6.25 kHz or -6.25 kHz from the current wide-band channel centers.
    This will allow two NBFM repeaters to fit within a 25 kHz channel while still maintaining 12.5 kHz of channel spacing between narrow-band operations, and without adversely impacting adjacent channel wide-band operations.

  • On 70cm, NBDV repeaters will be coordinated in the digital repeater sub-band, with operating frequencies offset by +6.25 kHz or -6.25 kHz from the wide-band channel centers.
    If no frequencies are available in the digital repeater sub-band, new NBDV repeaters may be coordinated in the analog (FM) repeater sub-bands using the same channel offsets as specified above for NBFM, subject to a number of conditions including using the lowest frequency pair available in the analog repeater sub-bands.

Other Bands

  • On other coordinated bands where the channel spacing is 15 or 20 kHz, narrow-band FM (NBFM) repeaters will be coordinated in the same sub-bands and on the same pairs as wide-band FM (WBFM) repeaters.

  • On coordinated bands where there does not exist a digital repeater sub-band, narrow-band digital voice repeaters will be coordinated in the existing analog (FM) repeater sub-bands using the same channel centers as wide-band operations.  Examples of NBDV operations include Project 25 digital and D-STAR digital voice (DV).

Applies to ALL

  • Currently coordinated repeaters in narrow-band segments do NOT need to do ANYTHING: they are “Grandfathered”.  We're NOT going to “dump” a digital repeater on top of them to encourage them to convert.

  • However, grandfathered repeaters become “frozen”: NO coordination changes of ANY type (administrative or technical) will be permitted EXCEPT

    1. A grandfathered repeater may be “converted” to a narrow band emission type.  In these cases the repeater may be moved up or down to accommodate the new channel plan.  No other technical changes will be permitted.

    2. The repeater may volunteer to move to the upper 15 kHz sub-band. Of course available channels may be at a premium and there are no guarantees that a suitable pair can be found.
  • When a repeater converts to a narrow-band emission, it becomes the coordination holder's responsibility to insure that it's users properly narrow-band their transmitters.

ARCC will always perform due diligence in attempting to coordinate all repeaters for minimal impact due to co-channel and adjacent channel operations.  However, mobiles are just that; mobile.  Co-channel and adjacent channel interference issues arising due to improper adjustment or operation of end-user equipment are STRICTLY between the repeater owners, NOT the ARCC.

As this is published, no new frequencies have been designated nor is a schedule or time-line for implementation under consideration or anticipated pending a decision by the ARCC board.


Meeting Board Attendees Guests
Kevin Woolard, KW3P Thomas Snorf, KC2IKD
Karen Woolard, N3QQT Edward Kita, N3MSK
Bill Powell, WB1GOT Terri Torluccio
Dave Laustsen, W3LAW Jean Laustsen
John Sichert, KA3LAO
Richard Stewart, K3ITH
Don Curtis, W3LR
Mike Torluccio, N3XXH
Pete Rossi, WA3NNA



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Rev. 1.1    2009/12/10 23:36:00